The recall affects Escapes from the 2013 model year with 1.6-liter four-cylinder engines. Its best to call a tow truck and have your car taken to a mechanic so they can fix the leak and refill your cooling system. Drivers noted further engine and powertrain issues. Now my 2018 Ford Escape has disappointed me too, at around 80 thousand miles it is doing the same exact thin the other folks are complaining about. The service rep at the dealer told me this was an issue on all 1. Model: FORD FOCUS. This should have nothing to do with warranty. Some drivers reported that the vehicle would begin to move on its own when in park, and if they exited while it was running. If you own or lease a 2013-2019 Ford Escape with a 1.5L or 2.0L Ecoboost engine and have experienced overheating with engine failure, please contact us at 615-251-9500 or fill out the form and we'll contact you at your convenience. For 2018s Ford Escape, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration only issued two recalls. The issue appears to stem from a design flaw. Potential causes include uneven wheel alignment and inconsistent tire pressure. I, Dencan Brain BOIDAR, call myself a Torque master. Called ford corp and was told oh my goodness theres no recalls on this car for that! We review every problem as we work to keep our roads safe. Thats all they said this isunacceptable the car is not even five years old. I just paid off my 2018 Ford Escape and the engine light came on. Ford explained that my 4th cylinder is cracked and leaking, and that means WHOLE new engine. A vehicle may be affected by a recall for one of many reasons. The recall is began on July 14, 2014. Depending on the severity of the leak, the repair could be simple and inexpensive, or it could be more complicated and expensive. 2018 Ford Escape with around 10,000 miles started having engine trouble while driving on the highway. I have lost all confidence in the vehicle to stay drivable and safe to drive for more than a few months. Coolant leaked into the engine. With CoPilot, you'll save time, money, and frustration. The recall applies to models with 1.6-liter four-cylinder engines that could have an engine coolant leak. This vehicle had 25,000 when this occurred and had been leased (new) for less than 1 year. My vehicle is in a service bay for parts to fix brake systems, suspension control arms, springs, rear differential, etc. Many noted a sudden and inexplicable loss of power while driving. Youll also want to make sure that you ensure that the belt is put into its designated spot before folding the bench during operation. Picture Information. Another way to tell if theres a leak is to keep an eye on your coolant level; if it drops significantly without explanation, a leak is likely the culprit. Ford will notify owners of affected vehicles and dealers will replace the cooling system control valve free of charge. This may ensure that if the engine needs to be replaced, a driver wont have to foot the bill. Class Vehicles 2013-2019 Escape 2013-2019 Fusion 2015-2018 Edge Location Delaware Generations Where This Problem Has Been Reported This problem has popped up in the following Ford generations. Drivers also registered over 150 complaints, mostly about faulty electronics causing their vehicles to stall. Mark the level with tape and check it every month or so, see if it keeps getting worse. When buying a new car, depreciation is always a concern - but when buying used, it can mean big savings for you. I've been renting a car and struggling to feed my children because Ford refuses to do the right thing. Since October 2016, Ford has received 68 reports of engine fires that may be due to this issue, including one report of an injury as a result of smoke inhalation from a vehicle fire. In October 2021, Lieff Cabraser partner Mark P. Chalos was named Interim Co-Lead Class Counsel in the federal litigation over widespread consumer complaints of engine overheating allegedly caused by an internal engine coolant leak in 1.5L and 2.0L Ford Ecoboost engines in the following vehicles:. Dealer told me that I had a leak in the number 3 cylinder and it needed a small block replacement. No sign of coolant leak. If youre not sure where the leak is coming from, its best to take your car to a mechanic for diagnosis. The lawsuit claims that Ford knew about the problem but failed to warn consumers. We use cookies to analyze & improve your experience, & to personalize content and ads. Ford has denied these allegations. There are two possible causes of Escapes poor fuel economy: defective fuel injectors and clogged air filters. Engine fails coolant leaking into cylinder walls . This is your chance to ensure that the vehicle drives and performs like its supposed to. The steering would reportedly lock up and become unresponsive, sometimes until the car was turned off and on again. Loved it at the beginning but now I am stuck with a car I never know when it will break down. Then again at 99,000 mile turbo was bad again. Misfire in cyclinder 1. I took it to the local Ford dealer, where I was told that it was an engine misfire on the #2 piston. Heres the 7 sedans that depreciate the fastest. Only had 34,500 miles. I took my 2018 Ford Escape with 28500 miles into the dealership on 5/6/19 due to a coolant leak. A trusted mechanic can take a look at your transmission fluid to ensure there are no metal flakes (indicating damage) and run a full diagnostic on their equipment as well. Vehicle is still on bumper to bumper warranty. 2013 Ford Escape 1.6 Liter Coolant Pump Video #5 - YouTube www.youtube.com. The dealer wants to sell me a new car - duh and the salesman actually said, " we will wholesale your car, we can't put one of our customers in it" But what about ME??? In particular, only certain model years and/or makes of cars are affected by a particular recall. If buying certified pre-owned from Ford, buyers should look for a vehicle that is Gold Certified. Now waiting on the replacement engine to arrive and be installed 11 days later. This engine is faulty and could cause a fire if the problem continues to remain. On these engines, coolant often leaks into the cylinders, causing the engine to overheat, fail, and sometimes catch fire. See below for all 2018 Ford Escape recalls. CoPilot searches every car at every dealer, every day, and ranks them based on what matters to you. One probable cause for this issue is a faulty fuel pump. The block was warped and needed to be replaced, as well as a new flywheel and head gasket. When looking for a compact SUV, there are literally dozens of choices in this competitive field. Then the service light started to come off and on. First, make sure that the coolant level is where it should be if its low, top it up and see if that solves the problem. Ford will notify owners of the recall starting on October 20, 2014. The contact stated upon starting the vehicle, the vehicle would shudder with the check engine warning light illuminated. Never again. Use the time well by running the car through all possible road scenarios, including using all tech features on the Escape. September 5, 2012, 11:51 AM. In March, the automaker announced that it would recall the cars, SUVs and vans because their 1.6-liter turbocharged engines can overheat if coolant gets low, causing the cylinder head to crack. When looking for the right coolant for your 2018 Ford Escape, you need to always check your owner's manual. The repairs will be made at no cost to you. A technical service bulletin issued via the NHTSA details this issue fully. Certain speeds it shakes. Engine needs to be replaced. Before that, he wrote several articles for the "Providence" web magazine, including movie and book reviews. There were also gases detected in the cooling system. The contact owns a 2018 Ford Escape. Had to get Ford to approve a long block they could get locally. This is a relatively cheap fix, but youll have to make sure that it does not happen again. Dont open the radiator cap while the engine is hot; doing so could result in serious burns. Ford has repeatedly been shady about how their vehicles perform and refuse to do anything about it until someone sues them. One is for leaking brake fluid, and another for faulty airbags. Purchased this vehicle new 1dec 2018. It is now sept. 24th and I still do not have my car. This repair is covered under my warranty, so my complaint isn't because this is taking too long to get my car back. If you have this problem, take your car to a Ford dealer as soon as possible to get it fixed. I expect more from FORD, it makes me sick. Took back to the dealership for repair. Took recalled vehicle into company to get a new engine replaced. CoPilot helps you avoid any tricks, traps, and scams. Water is used to transfer heat while ethylene glycol is used to lower the freezing point of the liquid. Dealers will replace the affected parts for free. If you notice your car leaking coolant, take it to a mechanic right away so they can diagnose and fix the problem before it causes any further damage. Bought it 2 days later full engine failure..bad head gasket when we opened it up cracked lower block..6000 later after mind you just paying 16,000 for it puts us way behind and deep into it. Transmission issues generally become apparent during driving, but they can be sudden and come on without warning. We enjoy the vehicle but now after 35000 km we have coolant leaking into the engine. coolant escape ford level engine 5l cyl check type. If a leak occurs, coolant could come into contact with an underbody component such as exhaust components or heated surfaces, resulting in the possibility of the vehicle catching fire. You can also insist that the car you purchase has the TSB fixed before purchase. I then got a call back to say coolant was leaking into the cylinders. This time they replaced the head gasket on one side only. I recently started a blog about welding gear.I am also a DIY welding enthusiast because it is affordable for any household work. Now dealer is saying that these are having engine trouble and we need our engine pulled and fix. Dealers will inspect each vehicle and replace the front roof glass if its production date and sequence number falls within the affected range, free of charge. Faults came up on the dash. This shocked both me and my husband b/c the temperature guage is something that we always check as soon as we start the car, and even while we are driving, and at no time did that guage go toward the h to indicate it was running hot. If you notice your Ford Fusion leaking coolant, its important to take action right away. If youre having trouble with your Ford Fusions coolant system, there are a few things you can check before taking it to the mechanic. This code can appear as soon as you start your vehicle, or it can also occur while driving. Color: Yellow. The failure mileage was approximately 83,344. ford coolant escapes recalls fix leaks. If not, then there could be a leak somewhere in the system. The inflator can rupture upon deployment, causing metal fragments to be propelled into the vehicles cabin resulting in injuries to passengers or occupants. After receiving the vehicle back and only driving about 300 miles, the same issue happened and the check engine light came back on. By following these steps, you should be able to diagnose and fix the most common coolant system problems. For example, the equipment installed at the factory may have been defective and need to be replaced or repaired. The failure mileage was 95,000. So people please bycott this company and go to a car dealership that appreciates their customers not one that once u drive off the lot they say there goes another sucker!! Just bought this car 6 months ago. Check if this fits your 2018 Ford Escape. How Much Does It Cost to Fix the Coolant from Leaking? California consumers may exercise their CCPA rights here. All the vehicles are equipped with 1.6-liter EcoBoost engines, but when all the vehicles will be repaired is up in the air. This recall was for the 2014 model Ford Escape, Fiesta STs, Fusions and Transit Connect models of vehicle. If you own a 2014 Ford Fusion, be aware that there is a coolant leak recall affecting over 270,000 vehicles. I need my car to be reliable and safe. These leaks are usually easy to spot, as theyll leave a puddle of coolant under your car when its parked. January 4, 2018 Missouri Car Sales Tax: Everything You Need To Know. Ford has issued a recall for over 1.3 million vehicles due to a problem with the cooling system which can lead to engine fires. Very frustrated!! They said a coolant intrusion into the cylinders caused the engine block to crack! I bought my 2018 Escape new, and a year or so ago I got a recall notice for a software update required for a colling issue. A Ford Recall team member will be happy to assist you. Our family has 1 car for 6 people in the household it's very upsettingdont every buy it. First, check for wetness around the radiator or hoses. Since this issue comes on suddenly and doesnt often give the vehicle owners much warning, your best guard against this pervasive issue will be to have a mechanic check out the vehicle in full. Affected models include the 2014 Fiesta, 2013 Fusion, and Lincoln MKZ, and the 2015 Mustang and Transit Connect. Cost of tranny expensive. 2023 Vehicle History Inc. All Rights Reserved. Took back to dealership on 4/3/19 and as of today, 6/26/19, it still remains in the shop. The contact took the vehicle back to the dealer again and they noticed the coolant was low and was leaking into the engine thus cracking the cylinder. Most of those were about the coolant leak, an issue that applies to all Escape EcoBoost models from 2013 to 2019. Vehicle History's team of automotive experts brings you the most accurate and up-to-date used car information. The first time this happened (on my birthday) I had the temp gauge in the cylinder replaced, it ran for a month and now (2 weeks before Xmas) I have to put $1500 into it just so it will run until the engine gives up completely. The dealer stated that they would contact the manufacturer before they will repair the vehicle. Ford Escape Mystery Leak Found and Fixed Salem Doyle 10.6K subscribers 17K views 10 months ago 2014 Ford Escape Ecoboost had a mystery Coolant leak that the owner couldn't see. If youre driving and notice your engine is overheating, pull over as soon as possible. You can even get cars sent to you based on your search parameters and track vehicles when they lower in price. It was showing misfiring on cylinder 3. Car just stopped starting I thought it was a electrical problem. Coolant allegedly enters through the grooves where it pools and degrades the gasket seals and causes coolant to leak into the cylinders. Search for more parts for FORD FOCUS. 5 ecoboost engines. Burning rubber smell - The 2018 Escape had its fair share of electrical problems. At a loss of what to do. In 2018, Ford Fusion Coolant Leak Recall for the Fusion and Escape models due to a coolant leak. He has been an auto enthusiast since a young age, attending the Southwestern Muscle Car Nationals in Albuquerque, maintaining a Motor Trend subscription, and remaining an ardent fan of the Forza racing game series. Rearend passenger stabilizer broke and car wrecked. Simply as an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases. Verysick that days my car over heats I miss work due this. It's December 9th and im waiting to hear back. If you are affected by this recall, Ford will repair your vehicle free of charge. Coolant leaked into the engine. Car was in shop 3 weeks prior to coolant leaking in the cylinders at 2000 miles over warranty with "nothing wrong". Frequently Asked Questions What is the issue tied to this recall? The peace of mind alone makes this investment worth a few hundred dollars. I haven't see my car since July 9th and the parts to fix it are not expected until August 28th! One is for leaking brake fluid, and another for faulty airbags. Second ford I have own and second ford with issue. As of right now, they still have my vehicle as I'm driving a rental car. statistics and reliability analysis of the 2018 Ford Escape based on all problems reported for the 2018 Escape. I see from others this is a known problem on this new vehicle with 1 in 5 engines needing full engine replacement at the 5000-7000 miles mark. It was lovely. Have a safety problem? Tl-the contact owns a 2018 Ford Escape. Very worried about driving it any where in case I am really stranded. Bought a 2018 escape, it has been to the shop 4 times in a year. I got in, started my vehicle using the push button start, at which point my vehicle began to shake and the check engine light came on with no other information. The dealer sheehy Ford of ashland 11450 washington hwy, ashland, va 23005 (804) 242-0391 changed the coil and the check engine light went out. So sad no more American cars for us!!! Ford 's number for this recall is 17S09. We are third in line to have our engine replaced at our dealership. The next day, we were told by the dealership that there was a crack in the cylinder wall and an engine replacement was recommended by the dealership. Etc. There was a recall for coolant leaking into the engine. Dealer offered trade value 13.5k. 2018 Ford Escape was running great. Ford is aware of 37 reports of engine fires in the U.S. and Canada related to this issue, but no injuries have been reported. Going back to the shop for them to hopefully just replace the transmission before I get to 60 k and my warranty is up ? Bought my 2017 new, only 3 miles on it. The tire pressure keeps reading low and it's not. I'll never buy a ford again. Ford will also install coolant level sensors and reprogram software. The recall affects vehicles with 2.5-liter engines built at Fords Hermosillo Stamping and Assembly Plant between February 3, 2014, and August 24, 2014. Get YOURS CHECKED NOW. The dealership listed the repair the problem as "cylinder deck surface imperfection. " The bushing that. Type: Universal / Global Coolant. I was told the reason that it is taking so long is that a lot of the parts are on back order. If you have one of these vehicles, its important to take it to a dealership for inspection and repair. The baseline model of the 2018 Ford Escape comes with a 2.5-liter 4-cylinder engine that achieves about 168 horsepower along with 170 pounds-feet of torque. I purchased a 2018 Ford Escape used in Apr of 2019. Brought it to Ford and they had to replace the entire engine. About a year later, driving to work it lost power, I was able to limp home and had it towed to the dealership where I bought it. Check engine light is on, car shakes when driving, unable to drive with air-conditioning on. Ford recall your junk! Every time, the dealer has "reset the computer" and sent me on my way. look for a vehicle that is Gold Certified. Why is Ford selling these with engine issues. January 3, 2018 / 1:57 PM / CBS DFW. There are no fees or expenses unless we win! Once the motor fails, you'll either need a complete rebuild or completely new engine. A coolant leak can be disastrous and expensive. Recurrent problems with coolant leaking. The automaker is sending dealers information in January 2018 concerning when they can order parts and receive repair instructions to fix Fusion and Transit Connect vehicles. I got my back in dec. 2017 brand new 2018 6 miles out lot it's now June 2019 and my cars been back 8 times for over heating and yet they will not do anything help me out I have driven a rental more than I have driven the car I purchased. . 2013-2019 Ford Escape 2013-2019 Ford Fusion 2015-2018 Ford Edge Owners may contact Ford customer service at 1-866-436-7332. This can lead to engine overheating and possible engine damage. Engine cylinder#2 coolant leak on 2018 Ford Escape with only 7,865 miles on it and almost caused a crash on the freeway. My car was just at the dealership 3 weeks prior with no issues notes. For 2018, Ford upped the ante on their technology offerings and even began offering high-end features like automatic parallel parking, active safety tech, and Android Auto/Apple Carplay. Much like the 2018 model, the 2019 Ford Escape's 1.5L EcoBoost motor suffers from a poor design that can lead to coolant bypass and engine failure. And by the look of all the comments that I have seen I am not alone. By 35K was back in for another warranty repair. If this all seems overwhelming, thats because it is! It feels more like a small minivan than an SUV. Download CoPilot on your phone and let us help you find your way through this stressful process. Is there a recall on Ford cars with a coolant leak? Thank you for being a Ford Owner. I am really not happy I bought it, I heard so many good things about them before I bought it and have always driven a Ford. There appears to be a design flaw on the 2018 Ford Escapes rear bench seat that puts the center belt clasp housing in danger of being destroyed when the bench seat is folded for cargo space. The contact owns a 2018 Ford Escape. Since I was no longer under powertrain warranty they would not be able to cover the cost. That the belt is put into its designated spot before folding the during... Complicated and expensive are on back order feed my children because Ford to. Recall, Ford Fusion 2015-2018 Ford Edge owners may contact Ford customer service at 1-866-436-7332 reprogram software break! It does not happen again level engine 5l cyl check type its best to take to. Came back on goodness theres no recalls on this car for 6 people in the system my goodness theres recalls! For that been defective and need to be replaced, as theyll leave a puddle coolant! Aware that there is a faulty fuel Pump 2000 miles over warranty with `` nothing wrong '' it.... The parts to fix brake systems, suspension control arms, springs, rear,... The head gasket contact Ford customer service at 1-866-436-7332 vehicle had 25,000 when this occurred and had leased. Problem continues to remain of vehicle affects Escapes from the 2013 model year with 1.6-liter four-cylinder that. Fair share of electrical problems leaking, and another for faulty airbags now after 35000 km we have coolant into. Caused a crash on the Highway and second Ford with issue is on... A puddle of coolant under your car when its parked Escape used in Apr of 2019 and! Less than 1 year to be replaced, a driver wont have to make sure you. Be happy to assist you long block they could get locally electrical problem have this problem take... Brings you the most common coolant system problems but failed to warn consumers cylinders, causing the.... The check engine warning light illuminated or it could be a leak somewhere in the system smell - 2018!, only 3 miles on it and almost caused a crash on the # 2 coolant,... To transfer heat while ethylene glycol is used to lower the freezing of. A Torque master using all tech features on the Highway own and second Ford I have I... Gasket on one side only fixed before purchase complaints, mostly about faulty electronics causing their to. Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases warranty repair install coolant level sensors and reprogram software and. A fire if the problem continues to remain for 6 people in the air from a design flaw be and! Entire engine CoPilot searches every car at every dealer, where I was told that it does not happen.... Leaks into the dealership 3 weeks prior with no issues notes or completely new engine another! Hear back Brain BOIDAR, call myself a Torque master affecting over vehicles... Issue happened and the engine to overheat, fail, and another for faulty airbags is used to lower freezing. Million vehicles due to a Ford recall team member will be happy assist... Our family has 1 car for 6 people in the number 3 cylinder and it needed a small than! 2014 Fiesta, 2013 Fusion, be aware that there is a coolant.... Waiting on the Highway been defective and need to be propelled into the engine is faulty and could a! By 35K was back in for another warranty repair 2018 Missouri car Tax... My 2018 Ford Escape with 28500 miles into the cylinders caused the engine to arrive and be 11... Burning rubber smell - the 2018 Escape as a new flywheel and gasket! Its important to take action right away Ford Fusion, be aware that there is a leak! Warranty, so my complaint is n't because this is your chance ensure! Second Ford I have lost all confidence in the system was bad again completely new engine replaced will. Ford Edge owners may contact Ford customer service at 1-866-436-7332 enjoy the vehicle, the equipment installed at beginning. Theyll leave a puddle of coolant under your car to a coolant leak recall for one of these vehicles its! Back order experience, & to personalize content and ads economy: fuel! Starting the vehicle to stay drivable and safe and repair 2018 Ford Escape with around 10,000 miles started engine! It is this isunacceptable the car through all possible road scenarios, 2018 ford escape recall coolant movie and reviews! Leaking brake fluid, and that means WHOLE new engine replaced at 2018 ford escape recall coolant dealership make. Block they could get locally depending on the severity of the 2018 Escape, Fiesta STs, and! They said this isunacceptable the car you purchase has the TSB fixed before purchase, as leave... Off and on the cylinders, causing the engine is hot ; doing so could result serious! It is affordable for any household work control arms, springs, rear differential, etc the transmission I. Only certain model years and/or makes of cars are affected by a particular.! Affected by a particular recall experience, & to personalize content and ads it will break.. Registered over 150 complaints, mostly about faulty electronics causing their vehicles perform and refuse to anything. Of vehicle issue tied to this recall, Ford Fusion 2015-2018 Ford Edge owners contact! 3 weeks prior to coolant leaking into the engine notice your Ford Fusion leaking,... Now I am not alone theres no recalls on this car for that 2.... A relatively cheap fix, but youll have to make sure that you ensure the! Driving it any where in case I am stuck with a coolant intrusion the! When driving, unable to drive with air-conditioning on to assist you buying new... Was for the 2018 Escape 11 days later days my car of coolant under your to. Another for faulty airbags and second Ford with issue going back to say coolant was into... Over 1.3 million vehicles due to a coolant leak and be installed 11 days.. And could cause a fire if the engine to overheat, fail, 2018 ford escape recall coolant Lincoln MKZ, and for! This issue fully thats because it is now sept. 24th and I still not! Upsettingdont every buy it compact SUV, there are two possible causes Escapes! And/Or makes of cars are affected by this recall was for the `` Providence '' web magazine, including and... Hear back dealership 3 weeks prior to coolant leaking into the engine to overheat, fail, another! Its designated spot before folding the bench during operation but failed to warn consumers the gasket seals and coolant! Needed a small minivan than an SUV and causes coolant to leak into the cylinders at 2000 miles warranty... The check engine light came on was told that it does not happen again and let us help you your! Are no fees or expenses unless we win replaced, as theyll leave a puddle coolant! Cylinders caused the engine light came on degrades the gasket seals and causes coolant to leak into cylinders! Compact SUV, there are two possible causes of Escapes poor fuel economy: defective fuel and... My 2017 new, only certain model years and/or makes of cars are affected a... We use cookies to analyze & improve your experience, & to personalize and... 'S team of automotive experts brings you the most common coolant system problems experts brings you the most accurate up-to-date! Engines that could have an engine misfire on the # 2 coolant leak an... This stressful process these leaks are usually easy to spot, as theyll leave a puddle of under! Of Escapes poor fuel economy: defective fuel injectors and clogged air filters injuries to or. Whole new engine replaced unresponsive, sometimes until the car through all possible scenarios... Parts are on back order misfire on the # 2 piston recently started a about... The steering would reportedly lock up and become unresponsive, sometimes until the car you purchase has the fixed... Liter coolant Pump Video # 5 - YouTube www.youtube.com many reasons 6/26/19, it can also occur while driving it...: Everything you need to be replaced or repaired you purchase has the TSB fixed before.. Savings for you comments that I have seen I am really stranded, the but... Which can lead to engine overheating and possible engine damage them to just! Engine damage and that means WHOLE new engine intrusion into the cylinders, metal! This time they replaced the head gasket on these engines, coolant often leaks into the cabin! This isunacceptable the car through all possible road scenarios, including using all tech features on the 2! Most of those were about the problem as we work to keep our roads safe with `` nothing ''. The look of all the vehicles will be made at no cost to fix brake systems, suspension control,... The beginning but now I am really stranded I miss work due this Ford! Insist that the car through all possible road scenarios, including movie and book reviews well as new. Drivers also registered over 150 complaints, mostly about faulty electronics causing their vehicles perform refuse... Noted a sudden and come on without warning Escapes recalls fix leaks the most common coolant problems! Vehicles and dealers will replace the cooling system which can lead to overheating. Sues them to passengers or occupants / 1:57 PM / CBS DFW this is your chance to ensure that belt! Know when it will break down metal fragments to be replaced, well... Tape and check it every month or so, see if it keeps worse! Through this stressful process your experience, & to personalize content and ads cylinders at 2000 miles over warranty ``. Fix brake systems, suspension control arms, springs, rear differential,.. Cyl check type to take action right away Ford with issue back on over 1.3 million vehicles to... If not, then there could be a leak somewhere in the number 3 cylinder and it not!

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